Category: Let's talk
This morning on the radio they were talking about domestic violence. it all stemmed from a woman who has been murdered after she reported her boyfriend to the police for asalting her. they did not arrest him, and now she is dead, she was pregnant. Anyway they had this phone in and they had all these women ringing in saying how they'd got out of abusive relationships .. but with some of them it had taken 25 years! It's always amazed me how any person can stay in a relationship with a partner who abuses them physically. I would never stay in a relationship like that, once you cross the line there's no turning back and I'd be out the door quicker than you could say "i'll never do it again". so what do you peeps think, what would you put up with, what would it take for you to leave someone who treated you like that, and, do you think that perhaps the law should take ove and press charges against violent partners if the police have been called, even if the victim is not prepared to press charges?
The reason they stay is due to weakness and dependence, the partner often becomes a substance they need, the abuser makes them feel so inadequate to boost their own dreadfully low self esteem,until, in the end, the women/men feel completely worthless and lose their will to fight back...why do these issues only cover domestic violence towards women, what about the men who are battered daily and hospitalized by violent women...
no no i did say how any person can stay with a violent partner. i'm well aware that men are abused as well ...
What did you want to know I've spent a very trying day dodging low flying food...Ahh got it smile..the minute he/she laid a hand on me, that wasn't consensual during S&M, I'd be offski,and having children would certainly not be on my agenda..If we had had children, the little man would not be left there, no matter what the risk
well this is the thing. if a person feels they can't leave for whatever reason that's one thing, but to then have children with that person ... i would never have children with someone who did those kind of things to me. that being said, i know a girl whose partner actually didn't beat her up until just after their baby was born.
No violence of any kind tolerated, at least physical violence and I'd lke to think mental violence I would not tolerate either, it's just harder to define.
yeah, I'm with sb! I would never stay if a man hit me. I was with a guy for three years in high school and he elbowed me. yeah, it wasn't much, but who's to say it wasn't going to go further in the future. I wasn't willing to take that chance. It has to start somewhere! It wasn't about to happen to me. I don't care how much I love the person, or think I need him i'm out of there. You should never really let you get to the point that you need him. or her for that matter! Yeah, you may love him and want to be with him, but you shouldn't need him! Does that make since? And I do think people should press charges if it gets to the point he or she is doing it all tthe time. If ou end it and he moves on, you know what is going to happen to the next victim. is that fare fo you to pass him on and not try to do anything about it. As far as the law stepping in and doing something about that is a hard decision to make. For the reason I just said above thinking of the next victim I would like to say yes, but um if they start making this decision for us what other rights will they take? Will it stop there or will they think they can make this decision so they will try to take it further? I mean they are laready trying to say how you can punish your child. Imagine how far that one would and could go. Smile- angel
Sometimes the child is used as a means of control..and a bargining chip if the partner is stuck at home with a baby they aren't out possibly talking to other men ect...
absolutely no violence should be tolerated. i too went out with a guy in school who was very very insecure. he'd had a bad life so I understand his reasons for feeling that way, and he was very possessive and i did put up with that for a while, but then one day he hit me because i went to talk to a male friend he didn't want me to talk to, that was the end of the line, you cross it, there's no going back.
Angel you make it seem so easy ohh that it were..The reason why charges are not brought are as I previously stated..but here we go again.Can you imagine the retribution the abuser would inflict if charges were laid against him/her..and I am in no way condoning this behaviour,however,these people have virtually no self esteem, a charge of assault GBH or worse, could very well tip them over the edge, and the outcome might well be murder..it is NOT esy for the victims to walk away due to finanicial abuse,leaving the children,a feeling of I can't survive on my own ect being elbowed is nothing compared to broken ribs and eyes punched shut...
yep if you would have put up with it that one time he would have thaught it was ok and you would still be around. You never know how far it would go! Good for you sb! If only we could um put some sense in the one's that put up with it. it kills me when they are abused and then they leave them and you hear oh he did this to me and I can't take it anymore. Then tow weaks later he calls and tells her he is sorry and don't know what he was doing. She goes back to him and it starts all over again. It makes it so hard for you to feel sorry for them. you know! Ghoblin before you say it yeah, it could happpen to men and does. I was just giving an example! smile- angel
I personally wouldn't tollerate someone laying a hand on me. If they did it would be they last thing they touch with that hand! I really feel that if the police are called out on domestic violence that there should be consequences. You have many cases where it is all alleged. No proof of what happened. The man or woman that called could be the abuser or instagator. I think that each person needs to be questioned and depending on the outcome of the questioning the person who seems more likely at fault or not acting in self defense, should be required to take an anger management class on the first offense and related counciling.
Ouch so you are saying if someone laid a hand on you you would either kill that person or chop his hand off (since you claimto be the last thing that person touch with, presumably his, hand" ;) a bit harsh but fair enough I suppose. <grin>
ghoblin i would have to disagree with you. If they would leave the first time they were hit or whatever they would be better off. Usually, and i'm saying usually, it starts off small with smacks, or elbows. The longer you stay the harsher it gets. if they would have left the first time it happened it would have never have gotten that bad! I never said kids were involved. Like sb I wouldn't chose to have kids with someone that has been abusing me. That is so selfish and unfare to the kid. That messes kids up for the rest of there life. And if I did have a kid that was in that situation with me, yes I would leave and suffer the consequences. I would much rather have him hunt me while were apart then stay and put my kid throught all that. I would feel it was my fault if the kid grew up as a abuser! I don't believe I ever said it would be easy on anyone? Did I? I know it is a hard situation! smile- angel
A Good theory..smile but more often than not the abuser pretends to be all sweetness and light, to the police it's a no win situation,if they were to force the abuser into interrogation he can turn around and sue for wrongful arrest and police harassment..and on top of that, sit there for an hour with his lower than low lawyer, and deny everything..I'm not getting at you I just have too much experience of the effects of violence...SB I applaud your nerve I can just imagine you giving him pelters...smile
Of course I wouldn't kill him! I would just make him suffer! LOL. No, I wouldn't have to do anything. I have pretty protective cousins that will handle that for me!
A Good theory..smile but more often than not the abuser pretends to be all sweetness and light, to the police it's a no win situation,if they were to force the abuser into interrogation he can turn around and sue for wrongful arrest and police harassment..and on top of that, sit there for an hour with his lower than low lawyer, and deny everything..I'm not getting at you I just have too much experience of the effects of violence...SB I applaud your nerve I can just imagine you giving him pelters...smile
actually yeh i hit him back and nearly broke his nose, grin. in fairness though it was more a reflex reaction than a deliberate one, but that was it. and he did come crawling back, crying his eyes out saying how he loved me and how i was the one and how he couldn't believe he'd hurt me etc, but ... too late.
yep sb i hit him back. That is why I always said it is a good thing I'm not in an abusive relationship, because I wouldn't be able to stand there and take they would probably kill me since I would have to fight back! And yep they always come back with the i love you and am so sorry i don't know what happened to me. um what ever! smile- angel
yep sb i hit him back. That is why I always said it is a good thing I'm not in an abusive relationship, because I wouldn't be able to stand there and take they would probably kill me since I would have to fight back! And yep they always come back with the i love you and am so sorry i don't know what happened to me. um what ever! smile- angel
SB..Jeez your a hooligan smile..
...Angel the victim never believes they will do it again..they may have grown up in an abusive enviroment and tragically they become attracted to these people,the rehabilitation must begin in childhood, if we are to have any hope of stopping this....
..SB I can't stand it when they do that...but the 1's you really have to watch, are those who are unable show remorse no matter how false..when you come face 2 face with one of them you have no hope... ..
I think there is hope for some of the abusers but they have to really want help, and they have to really make substantial efforts to get the help they need. I think if my partner suddenly started hitting me, I would wait until he calmed down and give him an ultimatum; either we get help for this, now, or I leave, now.
I retain the right to hit my partner if I'm attacked by them, for defensive, containment, and deteritive purposes. However, there are angles of this which haven't been explored during this thread. I think that if you attack your partner and they haven't provoked you, you should be treated as harshly by the police and courts as you would be if you committed an asault. However, if they are severrely provoking you, then I think yyou should have every right to retalliate against them physically, providing you don't cause them to need hospital treatment or worse. If they are abusive to you and you slap them, they diserve it for abusing you surely, unless of course their abuse was justified. I mean if you do something really bad which could have implications on the relationship and they vent their anger at you, it's your own fault isn't it?
So WW, are you saying that e.g. if your partner was behaving flirtingly towards a guy at the bar or spent $100 of your pay check on clothes before asking you it's ok of you to slap her? I think any physical violence except in self defense equates to an immediate break up and in addition most of it warrants a call for treatment.
I don't think physical violence between partner is ever justified, it may sound a bit narrow minded but I am pretty convinced those who use physical abuse by any means are hving some very deep rooted problems and a dangerous tendency that warrants being looked at as much for their own good as society's or the future partners of those peole. I do agree there may be circumstances and phases that the person can work through to become non-violent later on. However I could not stick around and wait for that to happen no matter how much I loved that person.
Cheers
-B
Ok, of course I agree in theory with everything that has been said so far in this discussion. From where I'm sitting, all cozy in my very non-abusive marriage, I am also tempted to assert loudly that I would never stay in an abusive relationship. it seems to self-evident, and that is exactly what points to the fact that the issue is not that easy. First of all, in a lot of these cases, the women simply have no choice. Oftentimes they rely on these men for their livelihood. They may have children with him that need to be fed and clothed and have a roof over their heads, and that are bound up in school and a life that is the only one they know, and it can be practically very difficult for a woman to leave, especially if the guy threatens her, or if she has nowhere to turn. And probably even more important are the psychological barriers. I mean, oftentimes these women have grown into such a habit of being abused that they almost cannot imagine a life without it. They may feel powerless, they may feel wothless, and they may even feel that they deserve the abuse, since that is what the abuser invariably tells those he (or she) abuses. Moreover, the women might actually still love the men, if nothing else, then as the father of their children... ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome? Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't think that a woman (or a man, whatever) stay with their abuser, but I just think that things aren't that easy. I bet you almost all abused women would have also stated they would never stay in an abusive relationship before they actually got into one.
I would never put up with abuse either. Once he slapped, pushed, or otherwise did something physically to me out of anger, there'd be no second chances. If he had personal issues, he should know he could've talked to me about it, as there's help for things like that. It's weird, but my sister, who seemed to already know what she wanted and where she was going in life, fell in love with her boyfriend, who started off nice, then he turned out to be the jealous type, questioning who she was talking to and stuff like that and telling her what she couldn't wear. Then after she got pregnant with her first baby, they would argue and he would hit her and they would get into fights. They've been together for a little over 10 years now and have 3 more children together, and the physical fighting has already stopped, but he's still jealous and now she treats him like crap too, putting him down and stuff. I hope I never end up in a relationship like that. Now she keeps saying she wants to leave him, but we all know she won't. Again, he's not physically hurting her or anything, but she's just not happy with him.
Leilani
with Susanne on this one. Noone purpusly puts themselves in an abusive relationship. it's something that just happens. You fall in love with a guy, or girl, cause he/she makes you feel special, you admire/respect hthem. Then things get nasty. But hey, he didn't mean it? He loves me. It's ok. he won't do it again. he said he was sorry. and mroe and more excuses are made. it's hard to articulate here on a message board everything I would like to say on this topic, this doesn't even scratch the surface. I guess the main point is though. that noone wants to be in an abusive relationship, physically or psychologically. it just happens. quite by accident. and then as others have said before me. You can't get out for what ever reason. it's easy to sit on the outer and say I'd never stand for that. Or if there was any sign of that I'd be out straight away. but who can say till we're in that situation. all I'll say is that I hope that I always can have good enough character judgement to never fall into such a situation.
yeah, suzanne you make interesting points. But you mentioned kids and that is there father. Is it fair to the child to see all this? Isn't that being a bit selfish if you are staying for those reasons. I mean the child could and probably will be scarred for life living in this situation. i mean who's to say when your not there he's not only abusing you but your children also. and they are scared to tell you? I think I would rather be in a shelter or something like that then have my kids go through it! Yeah, a shelter isn't the best place for kids but atleast they're not being abused or watching there dad beat there mom. This is all easy to say i know, but I feel strongly on this situation. It doesn't always get to the point that he is going to haunt you. Some still stay just because. I know I have seen that in a friend of mine. smile- angel
It’s true that it’s easy to look in from the outside and say “I’d never go there”, and I know there are circumstances where a woman sometimes gets caught in such a situation. A friend of mine was beaten up by her partner for the first time when her baby was just three weeks old. That’s a time in a woman’s life when she is most vulnerable, and at the time, she just couldn’t leave, she depended on him too much. But to be fair to her, she only stayed for a year, and then it all became too much and she left. She took out an injunction against him, he no longer sees his daughter, she did try and keep him a part of her daughter’s life but he never showed up for access visits so she stopped him seeing her, he broke into her house so she moved, and now he is out of the picture. It can be done, and yes it is true that some of these partners go after their victims for years afterwards, but that’s not a reason to stay. As for me, well I know it was only a relationship while I was at school, but even relationships like that can turn nasty, the guy in question hit me, and I never looked back. I was 17 then, and I’m a much stronger person now than I was then, and much more mature, there is no way, on this earth, that any guy would ever raise his hand to me and I’d stick around for more.
when i was in junior high, i was in an abusive relationship. the guy almost punched me once, but fortunately someone was able to stop him. yes im young, but that doesnt mean you cant experience things that "adults" experience. im glad i got out of it though, cuz i realized i was a much better person than that, and i didnt deserve to be treated like that. no one chooses to be in abusive relationships, cuz with such wonderful family as i have, i never would've thought that i'd be in one. but its made me a much stronger person now, and to me, thats all that matters.
It's good that you've able to come out of that relationship and are stronger after the abuse Love For All, and it's a shame that not everyone reacts in the same way. WB I don't think that spending a pay check of someones justifies them physically abusing you, or flerting with someone else either. However, If you cheated on your partner was court in the act and showed no remorse and they hi you, it'd be understandable. I also don't think that if your partner gives you a minor slap because you wownd them up a bit, the type that causes you no bruising no loss of blood hardly noticeable after about 5 seconds, you should claim to be in an abusive relationship. It's very easy to say "if my partner hit me or pushed me, I'd get out of the relationship", but if it was as minor as the type of slap I've just described, I think you'd be over the top with your reaction. I've never hit my partner, but on occasions when she's been very irritated, she has given me a minor slap. Once she tried to hit me and put so much into it that it caused her more pain than me. I don't feel like I'm been abused. I can handle and take that. It doesn' particularly bother me. She doesn't assault me, and there's nothing wrong with a little slap or for that matter, playfighting which is a form of violence. I'm not narrow-minded when it comes to violence, I know the difference between falling victim to a little slap, and falling victim to a violent attack.
No you do not if you are prepared to accept the slap, will you be happy to endure a few bruised ribs or 2 black eyes..Violence is progressive
I know I won't be enduring bruised ribs. As I said, you have to have a full understanding of the differen sorts of violence which can occur before you can form a respectable oppinion, and anyone who does understand what I was saying in my last post, wouldn't reach the conclusion that a tiny slap on the face will lead to bruised ribs. Some people seriously need to get real, stop been so soft, and grow up a bit.
violence is violence. yes there are degrees of violence but the principle is the same. and it depends on why the guy slapped me but I still don't think anyone should have to put up with it. sure if it was just a little slap maybe I wouldn't up and leave, doesn't mean I wouldn't slap him back though.
They have to get into your head before they start hitting. Once there in your head and have broken you down the hitting for some is a form of love. They treat you nice, take you out buy you things, treat you like yur on top of the world. Then they sstart to ignore you. When you start to pry they become explosive. rather then realize something isn't right, you investagate which only makes them more explosive. That in turn makes you explosive when you pit anger against anger what you do get more anger. pushes become shoves, shoves become slaps, slaps become punshes when you slap back. Punches become chokeing. and chokeing becomes well you get the point.
That reminds me of something. What is up with this crap about men aren't supposed to hit women? I think that's ridiculous! I'm all for men hitting women if they deserved it. If I hit my boyfriend, I'm gonna be prepared to get it back because I expect him to return the favor. If you don't wanna be slapped/punched/shoved/etcetera, then you'd better not think you can do it and get away with it just 'cause you're female. Ugh, I really cannot stand that!
--Allie
What! I have just lost all my respect for you.This ridiculous nonsensical bull,is the kind of ignorant sexist crap I expect from Blindguy not someone of your intelligence. Allie you have really lowered yourself here ..and considering the content of your post concerning the violent drunken father..its gross hypocrisy get a feckin grip pal!...No one male/female, gay/ straight or transexual, has the right to use violence on another living being, the minute you raise your hand you have lose the bloody argument!...
Noone needs the right as long as they've got the ability. Goblin you are so against violence yet I remember a post of yours where you described how you basically trashed your home. It sounded pretty violent to me. Hypocracy seems to be a reoccuring theme of your posts. I think it's you who needs to get a grip. Violence occurs everywhere rightly or wrongly. I agree with Orange Dalphin. If you hit someone then you should automatically accept their right to hit you back. SB if someone slapped another person yes that person is entitled to slap them back. Goblin if you can't take the most minor of slaps, then you're easily the weakest person I've ever come across because, never have I known someone get so worked up about violence, including the little slap. People who think that a little slap leads to bruised ribs etc in every case need to stop generalising. How can a person who hasn't been over-pretected all their lives or disconnected from the outside world as they were growing up not understand the difference between the occasional slap, and abuse!
Wangel it is clearly you who is needing to grow up, when you are happy to suffer a potenially violent partner do you stay so you can say I'm such a brave guy I let my girlfriend slap me about and its nothing..you are bloody fool! can you guarantee that the next time you wont be seriously hurt, what would you tell the doctor hmm.. I'd love to be there, when you try to expain away the injuries. Can you absolutely, categorically, trust someone, who is happy to use violence as a form of love..I could laugh at your pathetic need to stay with this slap happy bampot..but you are certainly not worth the effort..A real man would admit that he is in a violent relationship and try to help his partner or leave! But then you are nothing of the kind.
Wangel I destroyed THINGS I did not hit anyone.There is a massive difference between destroying a few trinkets, and thumping someone ..the fact that you are childish and petty enough to rely on that as an example demonstrates that you have neither the maturity or the intelligence to make the distinction, to you, violence is relative and acceptable.Do you like submissive people, do they make you feel brave,important and confident hmm, or do they make you feel like sending them flying across the feckin room!
SB that is possibly the biggest mistake you are just lowering yourself to their level, wouldn't you rather just get the hell out without acting in the same way as the abuser hmm? I have lowered myself to squirm in their slime and I've paid for it for 15 feckin years..
Agreed. Noone has the right to hit anyone. There are other ways of handling problems. As for the men hitting women thing, I don't know any woman who feels like they can't be touched even after they do hit first. I mean, obviously, if you hit someone, they are usually going to react to it. The best thing would be to neither take a chance nor put up with it. But if it happens anyway, the best and smartest thing would either be to leave if she/he are the one's being hit, or know that hitting isn't at all necessary to get his/her point across. If it is an anger thing, there is talking about it, and professional help for that. Hitting should never have to be used period, whether or not one feels like the other deserves it. And if you don't want a reaction from it, you shouldn't even start it because that's what will normally happen unfortunately. Just my opinion.
Leilani
Absolutely I couldn't agree more..
All this garbage about men not being able to hit women is absolutely ridiculous. I think men and women are equal, and my philosophy is, if a woman hits me, she'd better be prepared to get it back from me, period. Of course, that would also depend on what the circumstances are. If I deserved it, I would understand, but otherwise, I do not take that bull.
Chet
Goblin, dear, you apparently misunderstood me. All I meant was, I'm a female ... I hit a guy ... I better not think I can get away with it just because I'm female. Get what I mean? There are women out there that think it's OK to hit men because men can't hit them back. All I was saying was, if I hit a guy, I'm gonna be prepared to get it back because I started it.
--Allie
What is nonsense is this whole if I deserved it I would understand it. Who in their right mind things that they need to be hit? Let me tell ya, when I was five I didn't think I needed to be hit and now that I am twenty five I don't think I need to be hit. When I was younger looking back on it it was for my own good but as an adult, well lets put it this way. If you put your hands on me in a threatening manner with or without provacation I will remove them from my person. By any means nessasary. Lets face it, I don't ever want to hurt someone, at the same time I do not want to be hurt. There are ways of defendign your self without leaving bruses drawing blood or breaking bones. It is all about realizing the situation.
Orange Dalphin, the fact that you'd use violence makes Goblin dislike you. That's the worse thing you could possibly do according to mr. Softy in Scotland. Goblin, if my relationship was one in which I was been abused, it wouldn't have lasted, I'd have got out of it. However, Of course I'm not been abused, sometimes, not very often, my girlfriend may be frustrated, then she may slap me, burt I'm not soft enough to get worked up about a little slap. This is the case for a lot of normal British couples. It's not about bravery, I don't need to be brave, I'm not in danger at all. I wouldn't be going to hospital or even be bruised by my girlfriend. She's not one of those abusive types, she's very nice. People get angry from time to time. I maintain the right to hit her back if I wanted to though I've never exersized it because I haven't needed to protect myself. All people find it better in conflict if their apponents submit to them, the hole point of getting your way in a situation is that the other side gives way, that's just obvious simple common knowledge or at least I thought it was. If somebody disagreed with me, that would be no justification for atacking them, so I wouldn't do it.
Yeah, I guess ... but I'm not violent at all, so I would never hit someone first to begin with. Of course, if they started it first, I reserve the right to defend myself, but that's about it. I'm the most friendliest, sweetest person you'll ever meet!!! *GRIN*
--Allie
WW all I'm hearing from you is DENIAL DENIAL DENIAL and an totally unresonable amount of justification ..you said however I'm not being abused,sometimes not very often, Ha ha you are already in the habit of lying for her whats next hmm refusing to press charges and no I'm not a softy pal ..we just use alternative ways of sorting out an argument and coming to an agreement ...you are a sad case mate and your partner must indeed be desperate...
......................................
Allie don't patronise me I will never be impressed by your hypocrisy, however, I would enjoy watching you explain your theory to a room full of battered women. I might even be able to rustle up some who have recently been released from hospital, their ribs should have healed by now..
OK, Alex ... I think the topic's been exhausted already. It doesn't matter how many times I explain myself because you're trying very hard not to understand it. I am not making excuses for myself, and I am not trying to make excuses for anyone else. I was merely expressing my views because I know this is a free topic and we were called on to voice our opinions. *SMILE* Talk to you later then.
--Allie
there you go justification I'm feckin sick of it!...
hmm I couldn't stand that... 25 years? If I was in an abusive relationshiop like that I'd be dead in the end if I was in it for 25 years...